AP1/AS1 help needed

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this. Me, my brother and sister have Inherited family property. We are splitting the property unequally to give my sister 2/3 of the house and me and my brother will get 1/6 each. My uncle is the executor of the will. We are completing forms ourselves. We have ID1/ID5 forms, official grant of probate, AS1, AP1 form and a declaration of trust. I have questions about the certain panels of the AS1/AP1 forms in particular. Please see below - Question 1) AS1 panel 10 - We have selected third option - “They are to hold the property on trust:” and will write underneath: The transferees are to hold the property on trust for themselves as tenants in common in the following unequal beneficial shares: My name : 1/6 Brothers name: 1/6 Sisters name : 2/3 Is that wording correct and should I use percentages instead of fractions? Does it matter? Question 2) AP1 panel 15 - does it require only my signature as the person submitting the application in panel 7 or should it include signatures of all beneficiaries in panel 6? The GOV Guidance says all applicant from panel 6 but it has been very commonly suggested on this forum that it’s the applicant from panel 7. Quesiton 3) Do I need to send death certificate or is Official Grant of probate sufficient? If I have originals do I need them notarised?

Faisal - Panel 10 that's fine and it does not matter. They are your words to choose. Panel 15 should be signed by the person(s) named in panel 6 Just the certified copy of the probate is needed. Do not send original.

Thank you for the reply Adam. I have several originals of the Grant of Probate that I ordered when making the application. I am happy to send one of them off with the application and not expect to get it back rather than pay to have a copy certified. Is that ok or will an original just not be accepted? Also death certificate not neccesary? 3 more question if thats ok - Question 1) AP1 panel 14 (2) - Evidence of Identity - i have crossed both both boxes as to cover me and my siblings listed in panel 6 and to also cover my uncle the transferor/executor. My uncle is only mentioned in panel 14 (1) as the transferor. Is that correct? Question 2) Is doing a seperate Declartaion of Trust documents outlining our shares of the property something that is done quite commonly? Is it neccessary or do the Land registry just accept the split of shares as mentioned in the AS1 panel 10? Question 3) when sending off ID1 forms and ID5 forms do they all need to be originals with 'wet signatures' or are copies of them ok?

Faisal - that's fine as we can accept official copies of the probate. We don't require the death certificate. Please see our online guidance re how to complete form AP1 https://www.gov.uk/guidance/completing-the-evidence-of-identity-panels-on-forms-ap1-fr1-ds2#form-ap1

Re the Declaration of Trust - that is quite common and it is often drawn up for clarity amongst the parties involved. We don't need to see the declaration of trust itself. We need the original identity forms

Thanks again Adam and so sorry to ask more questions. These forms are quite complicated! I can only ask for you patience. 1) I have read the guidance. I am still unclear. The guidance you linked says "The second part of this panel only needs to be completed in cases where a discharge or release of a mortgage in paper form DS1 or form DS3 is being lodged with the application." - Is this suggesting that if I am not lodging DS1/DS3 forms with the application (which i am not) then 14 (2) evidence of identity does need to be completed? 2) if that isnt the case and 14 (2) does need to be completed. The guidance says "You only need to cross the first box (‘for each applicant named in panel 6 is enclosed’) if the applicant shown in panel 6 of your form is different to any of the persons named in panel 14." - the applicants in panel 6 are me, my brother and sister. In panel 14 it is me, my brother, my sister AND my uncle (executor/transferor). This to me suggest i shouldnt tick the first box? As the three of us in Panel 6 are also named in Panel 14. My uncle being an additional person in Panel 14 does not, by itself, mean that the applicants in Panel 6 are “different to” the persons named in Panel 14. I should tick the second box as we have written 'none' in the second column of the above panels as we have not used conveyancors. We had our ID1/ID5 forms completed by a notary and submitting forms ourselves. 3) RE Declaration of trust - does that mean we shouldnt send it with the application forms? Also eneded the sentence saying 'We need the original identity forms' - was this referring to my questions about needing to provide the ID1/ID5 with 'wet singatures' or something different regardign the declaration of trust? 4) Witnesses - Can fiances/wives be witnsesses so long as they are not benefieciaries of the estate? So sorry again for all the questions!

Faisal 1) correct 2) NA 3) Up to you whether you send it or not as we don't do anything specific with the Declaration of Trust. Original ID forms with wet signatures required We do not recommend that family members witness the execution/signatures.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/change-the-register-ap1/guidance-completing-form-ap1

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/registered-titles-whole-transfer-tr1/guidance-completing-form-tr1-for-the-transfer-of-registered-property

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/evidence-of-identity-conveyancers

Faisal - if you are struggling to complete the forms and finding the guidance tricky to use please do seriously consider using a conveyancer. They will be familiar with the forms, process and how to complete the application. They can also advice you all on the legal implications of what you are doing and alternative options as appropriate

Thanks again Adam for your patience. 1) I realsied i missed out a word in the first question. I wrote "Is this suggesting that if I am not lodging DS1/DS3 forms with the application (which i am not) then 14 (2) evidence of identity does need to be completed?" to which you answered 'correct' I was meant to put does NOT need to be completed. So aplogies but please can you confirm, if I am NOT lodging DS1/DS3 forms then 14 (2) evidence of identity does NOT need to be filled out? 2) I see you sent a link to TR1 guidance. From what i understand this is not applicable in this situation as the property was solely owned by the deceased and being passed on to beneficiaries and not a transfer. Is that correct or was there another reason for you suggesting this guidance? 3) Do you need a copy of a will? Thank you for the advice regarding the conveyancer. Theres been some tricky parts but your clarifications have helped with those. I will probably consider having a conveyancer looking over my forms.

Faisal - if you are NOT lodging DS1/DS3 forms then 14(2) evidence of identity does NOT need to be filled out An AS1 is a transfer and you may find the linked guidance helpful or use https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/whole-of-registered-title-assent-as1/guidance-how-to-complete-form-as1 3) No

Hi again Adam (sorry for another message!). Dare i say I think you might have been wrong with what you suggested regarding panel 14 (2) of the AP1? This guidance Youtube video Land Registry provide on AP1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMFQaGZYgBA It says at minute 10:45 that this section "must be compelted in all cases". Which i guess takes me back to my earlier question that if it MUST be completed then the guidance says "You only need to cross the first box (‘for each applicant named in panel 6 is enclosed’) if the applicant shown in panel 6 of your form is different to any of the persons named in panel 14." - the applicants in panel 6 are me, my brother and sister. In panel 14 it is me, my brother, my sister AND my uncle (executor/transferor). This to me suggest i shouldnt tick the first box? As the three of us in Panel 6 are also named in Panel 14. My uncle being an additional person in Panel 14 does not, by itself, mean that the applicants in Panel 6 are “different to” the persons named in Panel 14. I should tick the second box as we have written 'none' in the second column of 14 (1) as we have not used conveyancors. I thought this might be important to clarify for myself and anyone who might read this thread in the future. What do you think?

Hi Faisal - I might be wrong but please read the guidance on how to complete form AP1 panel 14 that I linked you to. You will note that with regards panel 14 (2) the guidance states ......The second part of this panel [so 14(2)] only needs to be completed in cases where a discharge or release of a mortgage in paper form DS1 or form DS3 is being lodged with the application. Completion is similar to the first part above. I don't recall you stating that there was a discharge being applied for

Thanks Adam i've read the AP1 guidance and i've read https://www.gov.uk/guidance/completing-the-evidence-of-identity-panels-on-forms-ap1-fr1-ds2#form-ap1 Looking at the AP1 i believe the sentence 'The second part of this panel only needs to be completed in cases where a discharge or release of a mortgage in paper form DS1 or form DS3 is being lodged with the application.' is NOT referring to 14 (2) but infact it is referring to the second part of the panel in 14 (1). If you look at the graphics in the guidance it actually points out what the first part of the panel is and what the second part of the panel is. I've attached and circled it. Hopefully you can see my attachment. And yes you are right i am not applying for a discharge.

Faisal - you should complete all relevant parts of panel 14. In the first section list all the individual parties. You don't complete the second part re the discharge/lender as there isn't one. And complete the last part to indicate that you are enclosing all the required ID forms.

Thank you. I understand that Panel 14(2) must be completed. My remaining question is simply which box should be ticked. In my application, the applicants in Panel 6 (myself, my brother and my sister) are all listed again in Panel 14(1), together with my uncle as transferor. We have entered 'None' in the conveyancer column of 14(1) for all four because nobody is represented. Should I tick: (a) the first box, (b) the second box, or (c) both boxes The guidance says 'You only need to cross the first box (‘for each applicant named in panel 6 is enclosed’) if the applicant shown in panel 6 of your form is different to any of the persons named in panel 14. You must cross the second box (‘for each unrepresented transferor, etc’) if you have written ‘None’ in the second column in any of the above panels.'

Faisal - as your Uncle is not an applicant you should tick the second box