ID1/AP1 forms - in particular when transferring more than one property

Good Evening.
I and my wife are in the process of transferring 2 properties, currently in my wife’s sole ownership, into our joint ownership. We have done this many years ago for a single property but would be grateful for the following clarification given current circumstances:

1. Is it correct, though not explicitly stated anywhere that I can see, that a current practising barrister is qualified to verify our identities on form ID1 even if that barrister is a family member?
2. Is it satisfactory to provide one ID1 form for my wife and another one for myself, that would satisfy the identification requirements for the transfer of both properties (rather than having 2 pairs of ID1’s)?
3. If the answer to 2. above is ‘yes’, should we just list the two title numbers separately in box 12 and similarly the two addresses separately in box 13, on both my wife’s and my ID1 forms?
4. Is it satisfactory to provide just one AP1 form for both property transfer applications? It appears one can list the applications (and their fees) separately in box 4 of AP1 but I’m not sure what would be required in this scenario for boxes 1, 2 and, in particular, 3? Although answers are the same for both properties I’m not sure how one would differentiate between the two properties in these boxes.

If someone could answer the above I/we would be very grateful.
Kind Regards. RD
 

Good Morning.

If there is anyone who is able to give an accurate answer to my queries I would be grateful.

Thanks & Regards,

RD

Good Morning 
1. Please see section 3 of our PG 67 for guidance on the definitions of those able to verify your identities. If the barrister falls within the definition provided then that barrister can verify your identities. Being a family member is not a bar to doing so. Practice guide 67: evidence of identity - GOV.UK
2 and 3. see section 11 of the same PG 67 for guidance re multiple applications
4. If there are separate Transfers then you will need to complete and submit separate form AP1s 

Hi Adam.
Thank you for your response.
However, could I put the following questions to you please:

1. I'm assuming from your comment "If the barrister falls within the definition provided" that you think some barristers might not be suitable. However, panel 2(a) of ID1 simply requires 'Barrister'. I followed your instructions to read PG67/LSA2007; s18 and sch2, 5(1)(a) & 5(1)(b), but I see only reference to those authorised & regulated in regard to conveyancing with no mention of barristers per se - and as far as I understand it barristers don't undertake conveyancing. So, I did try calling LR itself and the lady there said any practising barrister would do - do you agree with that or do you think there are some that don't?
2. Because I'm now unsure about submitting ID1 using barrister verification, I am considering using ID3. The same LR lady seemed to think that a doctor who was a son-in-law would be suitable to verify but could I ask you would concur with that please? The ID3 guidance mentions 'no relatives' but maybe 'in-laws' are acceptable being non-blood relations? ID3 would certainly be easier....
3. In discussing with the LR lady that this was two transfers of properties in the same borough and between the same named people, she said that only 1 AP1 was necessary - and that the answer we give to Q's 1,2&3 of AP1 will be treated as applying to both the transfers as listed in box4. I appreciate that that your answer was that two AP1's needed to be completed so could she be correct? (She did go and check and later emailed me to confirm her advice but tbh I'm now less sure than I was before). Maybe just more paper is safer?

Many thanks,
RD

   

Hi Robin 
1. Not at all. I merely referred you to the definition as the Barrister would know whether they fell within that definition and the PG 67 includes all the guidance we offer re identity verification 
2. Whilst I understand the concerns re 'family members' being involved it is not an issue when it comes to identity verification as they are verifying identities based on their professional position, not as a private individual.
3. If all the details from both Transfers are identical re the applicant and identity verification then you can use a single form AP1

Hi Adam.
Thank you for that.

• It appears that a barrister does not fall within that definition (PG67, s3) but since he/she is a barrister they can verify anyway. Odd, but I'm happy to accept, thanks.
• I can't find the text now, but I thought in my trawling I had seen something about not using family members for verifying ID3 (as opposed to ID1). The lady at LR says not so and you also say not so, so I will proceed on that basis, thanks.

Could I please just confirm my understanding of the correct fee:

1. I think the fee for each transfer should be £70, based on using Scale 2 for a transfer from sole to joint ownership (50%/50%) of property with full value of £250,000 (so a fee applying to £125,000 in this case).

Many thanks for your assistance in this matter,
RD   
 

Hi Robin - the guidance re 'family members' relates to the witnessing of a legal deed, such as the Transfer. PG 8 refers to such guidance as we recommend family members are not used to witness the execution
Each Transfer will attract it's own fee. If they are not for value, so a gift, then the fee is Scale 2 on half the current market value.
You should state the 'Full market value £X' for each Transfer in panel 4 of form AP1 and pay the respective fees. 
I suspect some of the uncertainty is arising from the fact that there are 2 separate properties/titles and you are unsure as to whether that requires two Transfers (form TR1) or just the one
IF the two titles are by the same Transferor and being transferred to the same Transferees then you should be able to use just the one form TR1 to transfer both properties/titles. You can then combine the current market values into a single amount and pay the Scale 2 fee as described.
However if you do two separate Transfers then there will be two separate valuations and fees

Hi Adam.
Thank you for that. You're right; I did not previously know that I could use one TR1 for transferring two properties/titles - I had presumed I had to use one TR1 per title.

So, at the risk of trying your patience....
 

• Both properties are gifts and both mortgage free and both gifted from the same Transferor to the same Transferees. One has full market value of £240,000 and the other £160,000 (to be listed separately on AP1). Now, I intend to list both titles on one TR1 form, putting two titles in box 1 and two corresponding addresses in box 2. Would that be correct?
• As regards fee, the combined market value for both properties is £400,000 and the fee is payable on half that amount (£200,000) which means I should pay £100 (scale2). If I were to use two separate TR1's, one for each property, I would then be required to pay a total fee of £115 (being £70 for one transfer and £45 for the other with lesser value). Would that be correct?     

Thanks again.
RD

Hi Robin - correct and as you are combining the two titles/properties in one Transfer you would combine the two valuations so a total market value of £400K
And correct re the second bullet point but if everything is as you have described a single TR1 with combined value is fine and just the one registration fee to pay

Hmm...

Sorry at exactly £200,000 I suppose that is a fee of £70?

Correct - if you state full market value is £200,001 or above then the next fee band applies. But IF you combine the two in one Transfer then there's one fee and £400K falls within the £200,001-£500K band width 

Hi Adam.
OK, I think I've got there!!
Many thanks for your time and assistance,
Regards.
RD