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Posted Thu, 07 Sep 2023 16:29:37 GMT by Charles Seaford
I sent in an AP1 and TR1 with relevant ID forms on 22 August. What happens next? Will I get a letter confirming the change to the register and if so when? At what point should I be concerned?
 
Posted Fri, 08 Sep 2023 06:44:58 GMT by Adam Hookway
Charles - you will be contacted when processing starts or is completed as appropriate. That may not be for a few months based on current timescales but there's nothing to be concerned about as the Transfer/change of ownership is protected.
Just bear with us and wait to be contacted/notified
If you want me to confirm we received it then please share the title number
Posted Fri, 08 Sep 2023 09:19:07 GMT by Charles Seaford
Thank you very much. It would be great if you could confirm receipt. The title number is LA106889.

On a related point. On another property which I own jointly with my wife (joint tenants) she is transferring her interest to me. I understand she is the transferor and I am the transferee, and it is incorrect to say we are both transferors and I am the transferee - since it is her interest that is being transferred not the property as a whole. Is that correct?

Thank you
Posted Fri, 08 Sep 2023 09:33:47 GMT by Charles Seaford
I have since been advised by a solicitor that both owners must put their names on the form. If this is correct the TR1 I sent earlier has been incorrectly completed. 
However the guidance notes only say the following
Write here the full names (including all middle names) of all the person(s) who are going to transfer the property. This must be the name(s) of the registered owners in the register, or someone who can prove they can act on their behalf (such as an executor).
This is ambiguous. What is being transferred is only my wife's interest so "all the persons who are going to transfer" refers to her. Then it says "this must be the names of the registered owners" - but the registered owners of what? I assumed it referred to the registered owner of my wife's interest. If it means the registered owner of the entire property it should say so!
Could you confirm the correct interpretation. If  it turns out that we have filled the form incorrectly does that mean we have to start again? If so, how do I link the new TR1 to the existing ID1/5 that I sent in? And could you please pass on this case to those responsible for the drafting of the guidance - they really need to clarify this. Unfortunately this is not an isolated case.  In general the guidance notes that HMLR produce are very hard to follow - HMRC makes what is really a more complex process much easier!!
Posted Fri, 08 Sep 2023 09:34:41 GMT by Charles Seaford
And if we do start again, presumably as a matter of legal reality the deed still stands - i.e. the date of transfer is the date of the original deed?
Posted Fri, 08 Sep 2023 09:44:33 GMT by Adam Hookway
Charles - received 25th Aug.
Transfer from joint names to a sole name so you are both Transferors and just you as the Transferee
You can't transfer a share or an 'interest' in the way you envisaged. A Transfer of a registered title/property is always of the whole as the legal ownership, which is what we register, can't be split into shares
The shares/interest you refer to is in the beneficial ownerships 
So whilst I understand that you feel that the form TR1 and guidance is ambiguous the starting point for any TR1 is that it is of the legal title/ownership and that was registered in your joint names, so you are both Transferors of the whole legal title,to just the one of you, the Transferee.
I would recommend completing a second form TR1 and submitting it by post with a covering letter to explain that the TR1 dated 22 Aug 2023 was completed incorrectly and the new TR1 is to replace it. Quote the title number and case reference G407GCT
The alternative is to wait for the processing to start and we will write to you and ask you to amend the TR1 and return it as appropriate. If there's anything else wrong that would be raised too.
T
Posted Fri, 08 Sep 2023 10:02:46 GMT by Charles Seaford
Thank you. I will send the new TR1 as you have suggested. Can we backdate the deed or do we have to delay the transfer?
While of course I understand what you have written, there is clearly a problem with the way HMLR guidance notes are written
This appears to be a systemic problem with the guidance notes, probably the result of an the assumption that members of the public do - and should! - employ solicitors to manage their interactions with HMLR - and I would be very grateful if you could pass this case on to whomever is responsible. It should not be the case that a professional person such as myself can misunderstand the requirements set out in the guidance notes. I would be happy to help in any way that would be useful. 
Posted Fri, 08 Sep 2023 10:07:39 GMT by Adam Hookway
Charles - you can date it the same. 
I shall share your comments with colleagues who write such guidance
Posted Fri, 08 Sep 2023 10:08:41 GMT by Charles Seaford
What I mean by backdating, is - is there a maximum period between the date of the deed and submission to HMLR? 
Posted Fri, 08 Sep 2023 10:12:02 GMT by Charles Seaford
Thank you very much for all your help with this - much appreciated.

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