Death of Both Tenants in Common

Hello

We changed the joint ownership of my parents freehold house from Joint Tenants to Tenants In Common when my mother went into a care home. 

Sadly my mother passed away on the 8th September, followed by my father on 28th September.  

Both had current wills. My mother left everything to my father; my father left everything to my brother and I, and we are his joint executors.

We will need to apply for probate for my father, but am hoping that by completing suitable paperwork I can transfer the property to the sole ownership of my father, if that is feasible now he has passed away?

If so, it looks like that may be through completion of forms DJP, RX3 and ST5?

Alternatively is it possible to deal with the eventual transfer of the property in a single Land Registry transaction once probate has been granted?

Many thanks in advance for your kind advice. 

Hello Jonathan - I am sorry to read of your losses.
You can transfer the property in a single transaction/application once you have probate for your late Father.
When you apply to transfer the ownership you should include certified copies of both your late Mother's death certificate and Father's probate
Forms RX3 and ST5 can be used to cancel the form A restriction, which I assume is on the register, as appropriate
 

Many thanks for your prompt and helpful reply Adam.

Should I complete and submit RX3 and ST5 now, or when we complete the rest of the transaction after probate? 

Jonathan - what is the rest of the transaction please?

Adam, only the ‘single transaction/application’ you referred to in your initial reply. I just wanted to check if the submission of the RX3/ST5 all happens as part of that same application, once we’ve completed probate. 

Jonathan - forgive me for not making myself clear as you referred in your original post to a "eventual transfer of the property"  so I am trying to understand if that's actually what you mean, a transfer is the next transaction or are you perhaps referring to the transfer in the context of the result of the death?
As things currently stand, and with both joint owners having passed away, I would recommend obtaining probate and then transferring the legal ownership as appropriate. That would either be an Assent (AS1) to a beneficiary or a Transfer (TR1) to a new owner say on sale. Both are in effect 'transfers'.
It's at that point a decision can be made re the form A restriction as in the case of an Assent a form RX3/ST5 from the beneficiary should be appropriate but if it's a sale then it's not needed

I see, thanks Adam. I should have been clearer. 

My initial use of ‘transfer’ was really to understand the requirement (and process if required), for changing the property ownership from TIC to my father’s sole name. I wasn’t sure if that needed to be completed prior to obtaining probate. The second use of transfer was misleading, apologies, but you’ve fully answered the question with your subsequent replies, for which I’m very grateful. 

 

Jonathan - there's nothing on the land register that forms part of the probate application process so there's nothing that has to be updated before you can apply for probate.
Glad the extra info helped
 

Hi 
I’m wondering if anybody knows what to do now . Both my in laws passed away over 20 years ago , leaving no wills .
They own a property outright approx value £200,000.
The house as stayed in the family all this time , family members have lived in the property over the years , rent free to help them get onto the property ladder , the house is now empty We have been up keeping it , repairs etc ,and we are wondering what are the first steps to get this house sold , there are 3 children ( adults including my husband ) surviving their parents .
please any help will be so much appreciated.
Thankyou 
michelle

Hi Michelle - whilst this is a public forum it doesn't really operate in that way as it's primarily a communication channel between posters and HMLR. Less of a discussion/chat forum as a result.
From a purely registration perspective you need to start from how the property is registered - Search for land and property information - GOV.UK
It reads as if both in laws were joint owners and that the legal ownership has not been updated/transferred
If so then you will need Letters of Administration for the in law who out-lived the other 
Once you have confirmed the legal ownership and obtained letters of administration to enable a sale to take place 

Hi,
I need some advice on tenants in common.
My parents have this on their land registry papers.
My dad passed away 2 years ago and left everything to my mum in his will.
My mum passed away 4 weeks ago and left everything to me & my brothers. I am the sole executor.
Probate was never done for my dad as everything went to my mum.
I am now sorting through the paperwork for probate for my mum and noticed that the land registry has this restriction on it because the tenants in common was never changed after my dad died. This will prevent me from being able to sell the house in the future.
My question is, do I need to do probate for my dad to change this or do I just fill out the ST5 & RX3 forms?
Or, if everything was left to my mum in my dads will does that cancel the restriction automatically & if so, what do I need to do to update the relevant land registry documents.
I hope you can help!
Thank you in advance
Lisa
 

Hi Lisa - sorry to read of your recent loss.
Probate for Dad is still not required. The legal ownership passed to Mum on his death and did not form part of his estate. His beneficial share was part of the TIC arrangement only.
And not 'leaving everything' doesn't cancel a form A restriction automatically.
The key fact that would help me offer a steer is what's now happening to the property. Whilst you mention her leaving everything to you and your brothers you don't state whether you are transferring to all, just one or two or perhaps selling it?
If you are transferring it to all of you then the form A restriction may not come into play and may also still be wanted. However before making such a transfer I would strongly recommend seeking legal advice to discuss what's 'best' in such cases

Hi Adam,
Thank you for your reply.
I will be selling the property once probate has been granted for my mum.
I am concerned however that the restriction with the tenants in common on the land registry will become an issue.
Would I need to complete any forms now to change ownership and if so, which forms?
Because my mum has passed away, will that also change things.
I suppose my main question is, do I need a new legal land registry document in order for me to sell the house?

Hi Lisa - many thanks. If you are selling then the next key Q is whether you are a sole or joint executor. If you are joint then the two of you will transfer/sell and the form A restriction does not 'bite' so does not prevent you both completing the sale and it will fall away automatically when the new owners are registered.
However if you are a sole executor then the restriction does 'bite' and you need to deal with it to enable you, as sole executor, to take receipt of the capital monies. Our PG 21 section 6 explains the options you can use and I would recommend sign-posting that to the conveyancer acting for you on the sale unless already aware of course - they should be - Practice guide 21: using our forms for complex and more unusual transactions - GOV.UK

Hi Adam - Sorry but I’m confused! I am the sole executor. Why does that make things more complicated than if there were 2?

I still don’t really understand what I need to do. 
Do I need to fell out any forms for land registry? Do I need probate for my dad? Can I sell the house? Is there a straightforward way to deal with this and Which forms do I need to send.

i know you have answered some of these points but I’m still really unsure as to exactly what I need to do and how to move forward.

Sorry to be a pain but I’m just trying to make sure I understand.

Lisa

Hi Lisa - it can be confusing but the key to understanding lies in the wording of the restriction. You can read how it restricts a 'sole' person from dealing with the property such as selling.
I clearly haven't explained it sufficiently - apologies
As you are selling you don't need to do anything re updating the register - a buyer can usually rely on the current register plus your Dad's death certificate and Mother's probate. Those confirm both deaths and probate confirms that the executor, you, can deal with her estate and that includes the property
You don't need probate for Dad with regards the property
The forms (AP1, TR1 and ID forms) will all be part of the sale/purchase and I assume you are using a conveyancer for the sale
So as things currently stand you don't need to do anything other than wait for the probate, market the property and appoint a conveyancer.
PG 21 section 6 explains how a transfer can be completed to both deal with the form A restriction and transfer the ownership to the buyer
Does that make better sense?
 

Thanks Adam, I think I understand now.
Just in case it is useful, the restriction on the form is as followed:
Dated :11.07.2005. 
RESTRICTION
No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court.

Will this change anything from what you have previously said and if so, what do I need to do?
Thank you once more
Lisa

Lisa - that's good and Yes, that's a form A restriction so changes nothing
Please do seek legal advice/assistance with regards what happens next in selling the property - whilst I can share our forms and guidance and insight based on experience the devil is always in the specific details involved. That means not only the registered information that we hold but also the wider wills, wishes and beneficial interests that we do not have any direct involvement with.
As things currently stand, and based solely on what you have shared here, once you have probate you can sell the property. You will have to deal with the form A restriction when doing so as it is just you who is selling and PG 21 explains how that can be done. Your conveyancer will know that and be able to explain further

Thank you for all of your help Adam, I really appreciate it.

Maybe all of my questions & your answers will be able to help someone else who is going through something similar.

Thank you again 🙏

Glad it was some help Lisa
This type of discussion is quite common on the forum and plenty of threads that refer to similar/same scenarios. The hope is that people do find a thread and scenario that match their own and enables them to then find answers as appropriate
I hope the probate and sale all goes ahead as hoped for