Unregistered land query

Hi have an unusual situation, I own 2 parcels of land which has a small strip between, around 4 meters wide and 10 metres in length, I have full easement rights over the land for foot, vehicles and animals.. Its looks like the strip was retained as access to a farm, looking at old documents which is now a golf course.  there is a narrow public right of way which is also on the strip of land. The owner of the land which is untitled was a gentleman from 1948.. We have tried to find the family tree forward but this has been exhausted now.. so we assume no dependants, the land has been abandoned now for around 50 years and has become part of our garden.. except the footpath which is fenced of my a 1.2 meter chestnut fence either side.  We cannot apply for adverse possession as there is a public right of way, The reason this has come to light, we are asking the council for a diversion order on the path, which has had so far positive response but as we are not the land owner the application is hard to put a case together even though we own the land either side of the path.( less the 2.5 meters owned by the gentleman from 1948 ).. In a normal situation we would offer to purchase the strip but this is not possible so we are lost on which way to go, we are not looking to extinguish the path but are looking for how to move forward on the ownership side.

Paul - Apologies for the delay in responding to your post. 

If you are seeking advice or guidance on how to move forward on the ownership side then you need to speak to your legal advisor.  We cannot tell you what you should do or how to go about as that would be going beyond HM Land Registry's remit. 

Dear Nimish, It is not legal advice, I have gone down this path and this seems to be a situation with no answer. I believe that an error was made by the Solicitors, with the conveyance and Land Registry in 1958.. The whole tile including the access strip in question was sold to the neighbouring land, as the strip in question was retained by the vender in 1948 for access to the remaining 70 acres. He died in 1956 and the whole title was sold as it would have been on one deed not separate.( including the access strip ) However what has happened now is we have a unregistered piece of land which was owned by the same person who sold the whole title deed including this strip in 1958.. so unless we can reunite this random strip of land to the legal owner it will always be in perpetuity, and as the land registry goal is to make sure land is registered this will never happen as I mentioned in the original post, you cannot take adverse possession of a footpath which runs through this strip of land.  If I could get a copy of the original deeds from 1958 this would substantiate what I am saying and the strip or land could be re united to its true owner.. The title has only changed hands once since 1958 from a Local Authority to a Golf club, so the paper trial should be pretty simple.. Its locating the original deed and wording on it will prove what I am saying and then the land can be registered and this will help make sure the Land Registries Title is correct and this error has been corrected to show that the golf club are the legal owners of the land in question as they own it now.

Dear Nimish, what I am looking for is for Someone at Land Registry to take a look at all the evidence that I have and correct the mistake made in 1958 and make sure the land goes back the the rightful owners, which I know is the Land Registry's ultimate goal to have all land registered to its rightful owners. Many thanks for your help . Paul

Paul - if you want to report an error then you can do so using our online contact form. 
We won't have the original deeds so presumably you would need to make enquiries of the Local Authority/Golf Club. 
If you wish to check and confirm what paperwork was submitted at the time of first registration of a registered title then you can use the contact form to do so - the support team can then check and advise how to apply for copies as appropriate. But as mentioned the amount of details retained will be minimal and may only refer to the application form and list of docs submitted and who they were returned to.

Hi Adam, Thank you fo the prompt reply.. I have asked the golf club for a copy of their deeds, which I should receive soon. Tonbridge and Malling council do not have a copy of the original transaction in 1958 so this lies the problem..  When the gentleman died in 1956 this whole estate including the strip of land was sold by his daughter in 1958 and Tonbridge and Malling bought the land around 78 acres.. this was later sold to the golf club. I have had confirmation from the Son of the original owners daughter that he remembers categorically that his mother sold the whole interest in the land and retained no interest in it. As the whole parcel was on one deed the only legal owner would have been Tonbridge and Malling council and then the golf club. If I send you the 2 titles in question would you take a brief look to see the problem please. I understand you are busy but, all I am trying to do if give the legal owner of their land back and make sure this unregistered strip does not continue in perpetuity.

Paul - I understand and appreciate the difficulties but the scenario you describe is a very unique one and there is nothing we can do via a public forum. 
If you believe an error has occurred in registration then you must use the contact form to submit your claim as to an error and supply supporting evidence if that's required.
If you are trying to close a gap in understanding as to what was registered and how and if we have any documentation that may assist then again, use the correct contact form option and the support team will check the historical records and respond as appropriate.
The uniqueness and complexity of what you are suggesting/complaining is not something that would benefit from a 'brief look'. You yourself have stated that it is an unusual situation and it appears from your commentary that you still don't have all the pieces of a complex jigsaw and that should be your next step.

Good Morning Adam
I took your advice yesterday and due to the unique and complexity of this situation, I have completed the forms to the link you supplied.. Thank you again for your help and assistance 
Regards
Paul

Good Afternoon, 

I have sent my request in as I mentioned previous... Can ask I what is the correct, my title document showing what I own or the HM land Registry electronic system as they are very different showing what I own compared to my title document. there is pending footpath diversion which at present is getting held up until we can understand why my title is different to your system. 

Regards

Paul

 

Paul - the registered information, in this case the title plan, will show the general boundaries for the registered title concerned.
I'm unsure what you mean by our 'system'. If you mean the index map/mapsearch information then that is simply to assist with identification of affected registered titles. It is not intended to show ownership or general boundaries but simply to enable viewers to get a steer as to which titles, if any, affect the land in question. 
Once a title number is identified you would rely on the title plan to confirm the registered extent for that title

Thank Adam,

My title document show a definitive parcel of land measuring around 100 meters by 6 meters so not a small section dividing to parcels of land that I own as per my title document.
However on the Map search Land registry system which the consultant was using for the pending footpath path diversion which at present is being put on hold with Kent County Council until we can get to the bottom of the puzzle clearly does not show any separate parcel of land it has been amalgamated into my title, so my title document shows a totally different Title plan to land Registries Map search.

Thanks Paul - MapSearch is simply a tool to help identify registered titles. It should be ignored if your are trying to confirm the registered extent of a specific title - the title plan does that.
You/your conveyancer can flag a MapSearch issue by using our contact form to highlight the apparent mismatch between the two

Thanks Adam.. My title says this gentleman still retains the land from 1948 so hopefully, my enquiry with Land Registry with confirm this and things can move forward.

Hi Adam

I wanted to ask how long do Land Registry normally take to reply.. my case number is REF 240504 -3328559

Thanks

Paul

 

Hi Paul - as it relates to a possible 'Amend' it will often be a while before it's considered and a response issued. All about complexity usually and whether paper records need to be retrieved and what level of experience/expertise is required to consider and respond.
I wouldn't have expected a reply as yet to one submitted on 4th May but I'd expect a response in the next 5 days for example hopefully

Thank you

Good Morning Adam,

I still have not heard back from Land registry yet regarding this unregistered piece of Land.  
I have a question, Through tracing back Will's  and probate we have identified the beneficial owner the Grandson, he is now 87 so time is of an essence to try and conclude this.. Looking through the application and guidance, they ask for evidence of possession .. As the land has been left like it was 68 years ago, how can the Grandson and his mother before him show evidence of possession for a piece of land they did not know they had a legal right to until 2 months ago.

Regards  Paul

G M Paul - the initial enquiry has been flagged as an 'amend' so in essence a possible correction. I can see that you have followed up with a number of additional emails/information as well. The complexities involved are likely to mean a significant amount of investigation is going to be required, inc paper records, so it will unfortunately take time. Hopefully though the wait for a n answer won't be too much longer
As to your question now posed here it doesn't read like they would be claiming ownership through adverse possession as you refer to the original owner being the legal owner so presumably have proof of title. The beneficiary has then inherited the land in effect so if that's the case you are dealing with an application to register the land based on a transfer by the deceased's executors to the said beneficiary. 
It's possible you have something to confirm the deceased's ownership but other deeds have been 'lost' - if so then any application to now register would rely on a statement of truth re what's happened re the said deeds etc - see PG 2
However if there are no deeds to confirm legal ownership then a claim is the only way forward and such a claim would be based on the facts as known. Those maybe limited for the reasons you mention but the key start point is always the legal requirements and have those been met. The registration ones would come next so it is important to eek legal advice to understand what evidence you have/is required in law to prove ownership. If the legal requirements are met then an actual application to register the claim can be made

Hi Adam, thanks for the reply,

The legal owner though will's and probate due to deeds being lost or misplaced, so a reconstructed title is being built,  the question in the PG2 document asks for evidence of possession,  and that is what I am trying to understand, in 1948 a gentleman owned the land, and left the Land called Valley Wood to his daughter, she was not aware she owned the piece of retained land when she sold the rest of the estate,  when she passed away her estate was left to her son.
The Solicitors are preparing a statement of truth for the title but the grandson now 87 only found out he was the legal owner 2 months ago..  so how can he prove he is in possession apart from the history trial I have built up going back 76 years.. The most frustrating part is the land in question was an access path to the rest of the estate... its value is around 1200 pounds.. the Legal fees so far are around 10 thousand pounds... I'm sure it will come together in the end so that my title can be correct for the next owners in time.

Paul - evidence of possession, in the context of lost deeds, is with regards who had the deeds and documents.