Skip to main content
Posted about a month ago by Marie Ping
My husband died recently and left his 50%share of the house in a will trust to  his two adult children giving me a life interest. Is it necessary for me to update the register by removing his name to the title deed now. Could it be left as such time arises e.g sale or death. Probate was not necessary to access his accounts. I have been told that as sole owner I can apply to add the adult children name as trustees. They are also beneficiaries. I have been getting conflicting advice on this issue as others have said I do need probate to be able to do this. I also want to know if I add their name as trustees when I die do they need to inform land registry so that it is known  they are now legal owners of the nouse and no longer trustees.  How do I do that pl? According to late husband wills, they are both trustees and beneficiaries. Hope my question is clear as am a bit muddled. To sum it all if trustees also beneficiaries are already on title deed, now that sole owner has passed, does the house becomes automatically theirs or do they have to apply for transfer. Thanks
Posted about a month ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - I am sorry to read of your loss. We can't advise you on what's 'necessary' in such circumstances as we register the outcome of such decisions and it's legal advice you all need, which we don't give.
One option is to leave it as is until a sale or later death
As you were joint owners probate is not required re the property as the legal ownership passes to you to deal with and does not form part of his estate
If you decide to transfer the property into your joint names then you will have to apply to update the register as appropriate. The house does not transfer automatically to any beneficiaries. You would have to transfer it to yourself and them if that was the decision made.
I would recommend seeking legal advice or speak to whoever advised you on your wills/trust as perhaps what might happen next and the impact of same was discussed
Our online assisted guidance will help you to identify the forms and more needed once you have decided how to update the register 
HMLR Guide: Start - External  · HM Land Registry
Posted about a month ago by Marie Ping
Thank you if their names are already on the register as trustees when I die. If I understand correctly my executors  who are the trustee and beneficiaries of the will, will need probate to legally transfer the house into their names.  I thought as trustees and beneficiaries probate might be avoided There will be two trustees. I will seek legal advice when the time comes. Thanks
Posted about a month ago by Marie Ping

Pl can you explain this, I thought his half share does form part of the estate. We hold the property as tenants in common.

As you were joint owners probate is not required re the property as the legal ownership passes to you to deal with and does not for part of the estate.

Thanks

Posted about a month ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - the 'share' and tenants in common you refer to relate to the beneficial ownership and not the legal ownership. We register the legal ownership and that is always dealt with as a whole as it can't be split. So when a joint owner dies the legal ownership passes to the surviving owner to deal with so probate is not required.
By 'deal with' doesn't mean the trust, wills and beneficial shares are ignored by the survivor, beneficiaries and trustees but from a registration perspective and change of ownership probate is not required. 
You do need legal/financial advice here to understand what can happen next and what impact that may have on you all re the trust, wills and future inheritance etc - all things we don't deal with or advise upon 
Two possible outcomes here are you simply update the register re the death, nothing else, or you transfer the legal ownership. You could also do nothing as you suggested. 
Posted about a month ago by Marie Ping
Would you advise I remove his name from the register. I only need to fill a form and send the death certificate. As the sole owner if i lost capacity and the house needs to be sold e,g for care home. I understand trustees need to be appointed. Thanks
Posted about a month ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - I always recommend that people do update the register in such cases. There's no compulsion to do so though as very sadly the death is factual and can be proven with a death certificate as and when necessary for example when selling, transferring or mortgaging in the future. 
The longer term concerns re mental capacity are best dealt with by ensuring you have Lasting Powers of Attorney in place as appropriate. For example if you deed lose capacity then the Attorneys can then deal with the property and also supply a copy of the death certificate
My recommendation remains to seek legal advice so that all of you understand the legal position re the property and what can happen next and what will be required. All of your personal circumstances and concerns for the future can be addressed collectively and everyone is then on the same page as to what can and should happen next.
It can all seem very complicated and intricate but invariably, if all are in agreement, any future changes/updates can be quite straightforward with regards the legal title/ownership that we register
Posted about a month ago by Marie Ping

Thanks a lot. Very much appreciated. Very good advice.

Posted about a month ago by Marie Ping
I have another query. If I do decide to transfer the legal ownership in their joint names. Myself 50% and 25%each using form TRI to transfer the whole ownership. What will be their position trustees or legal owners? If they are registered as legal owners, it might affect their first time buyer status.Thanks
Posted about a month ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - they will be joint legal owners and your Q highlights why you do need legal advice to understand what options exist and what the implications are re such choices
Posted 29 days ago by Marie Ping

Thank you I will seek legal advice but am just considering my options what to do. If I understand correctly if I add their names, they will be legally registered as part owners with me. Is it the same forms  to use if I want to add their names as trustees not legal owners. Is it the same form to use if I add their names as trustees, they will not inherit until I die and the trust ends. My query as sole survivor I will need trustees if I need to sell, I cannot sell on my own.  Sorry for the confusion, still confused about when trustees who are beneficiaries can become legal,owners and how to go about it.To avoid all the stress  am going to take the easiest option do nothing until the time comes.

Posted 29 days ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - if you decide to transfer the ownership then yes, same forms. 
If you sell and there is a form A restriction on the register and the trust still exists then you will need to appoint someone else to act with you as Transferor to take receipt of the capital monies, which can then be shared out as per the trust/beneficial interests
Reading between the lines you have set yourself you need to clarify who the legal owner(s) need to be and how the trustees and beneficiaries are involved. I suspect they are actually one and the same and you are perhaps over-thinking matters with regards how the registered information is involved.
I suspect, but this is where you must get legal advice, that when the two of you set up your wills you created a trust that set out how your beneficial shares would be split as and when both of you died
In doing so you created both trustees and beneficiaries BUT they would only come into play when you both died and the beneficial ownership (the value of the land/property) was realised and turned into £s and pence, which can then be split 50/50 for example
If that's the case then there maybe nothing to do other than update the register re the death now and ensure the trustees/beneficiaries understand what is to happen when you die and who then applies for probate, becomes your executor and then sells the property to enable the monies to be split/shared as intended.
It can be stressful trying to understand it all but that's why legal advice should always be sought to help all of you understand the legal position and what roles/shares exist and when they then need to be followed and dealt with 
Posted 29 days ago by Marie Ping

Thanks very much. You have clarified my intentions clearly. I Am overthinking. I thought by adding their names now as trustees and beneficiaries whilst I am still alive.They can avoid probate if it’s just a matter of removing my names and as their names are already on the register. If I understand correctly probate will still be required so that the register is updated showing them as tenants in common 50/50%each. As the estate will be below IHT on both death.  I thought probate could be avoided. Thanks again.

Posted 29 days ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - if you did transfer the ownership into joint names then probate would not be needed for you when you died. The legal ownership would pass to the surviving joint owner(s) as appropriate - it seems my explanations have not made complete sense and I apologise for that.
Avoiding having to apply for probate is commendable but rarely essential but of course that is entirely your own choice.
If you want to avoid that need then you would have to transfer the legal ownership into joint names 
We don't deal with probate applications so I can't comment on which is 'best' to be avoided here - probate or transfer?
What's the issue for you re probate?
Only you can decide and the option to do nothing still exists of course 
Posted 29 days ago by Marie Ping

Thank you very much for your understanding and patience. Am not going to do anything now and my executors  will deal with the issues when the time arises. One of my adult children will lose his first time buyer status if I add his name to the register. I am seeking advice but the advices are so conflicting.

Posted 29 days ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - noted and fully appreciated. Advice will be given based on the adviser's expertise, understanding and profession so can vary in my experience 
Posted 28 days ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - your thread/posts is an interesting and useful one for others to read and for us at HMLR also.
I wonder, if you feel so inclined and have the time, whether you might be willing to share here the research journey you went on and how you then arrived at this forum?
Nothing detailed or personal and no names etc but which professions and online material did you look for and find to get the advice you did. No pressure to do this and share but anything to help signpost where your efforts were directed would be of interest to us at HMLR
Posted 28 days ago by Marie Ping

I will share my experiences it might be helpful for somebody in the same situation.Pl bare with me I have another question 

See your response below-

if you did transfer the ownership into joint names then probate would not be needed for you when you died. The legal ownership would pass to the surviving joint owner(s) as appropriate 


Assuming using TRI form  I transferred 50% to myself and 25% to my daughter and 25% to my son. On my death will my 50% split to 25% each automatically once the executor apply to remove my name from the register. Will there be another form apart DJP? Thanks

Posted 27 days ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - that would be very helpful and thank you. No rush.

If you transferred the whole of the legal ownership to you and your two children, and you then died, probate would not be needed and form DJP plus death certificate only would be needed to update the register.
The $ shares you refer to relate to your beneficial ownerships and whilst they can be included in the transfer deed they are not then added to the register as well. This is why the legal ownership, which we register, is only ever transferred as a whole hence the transfer you are thinking of would be by You to You plus 2 children
Posted 27 days ago by Marie Ping

Still confused adding trustees names and transfer are not the same. Pl bare with me again. Adding their names as trustees is that different from actually transferred their names in the title deed. As trustees they do not legally owe the property but if I transfer their names, they will be legal owners. Not sure whether am making myself clear. Am having a discussion with the adult children how to proceed. Thanks for your patience

You must be signed in to post in this forum.

Sign in