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Posted 27 days ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - the confusion maybe as a result of your understanding/use of the term trustees.
Private trusts can be created as a result of the wills, agreements etc that you refer to but they may not then lead to a change in the register re the legal ownership.
The trust can be protected in other ways - see our PG 24 with regards how certain restrictions can protect such a trust/arrangement - Private trusts of land (PG24) - GOV.UK
Transferring the title to the three of you would indeed make them legal owners
The key Q re 'How to proceed?' is one for a legal rep to answer for you. As posted previously we deal with the outcome(s) of what you decide and we have no role to play in answering that Q for you. We simply register what you decide to do, if anything.
Your scenario and uncertainty are not uncommon re such matters. The complexities involved with wills/trusts and then the legal ownership we register create uncertainty hence the need to take professional legal advice to ensure that you all understand the legal position, what options exist and what impact any decisions made then have on you all 
IN considering your options it's best to also consider everyone's current personal circumstances re home ownership, health, wills and families and more and what might be 'needed' re the property in the future.
As we deal with the legal ownership we have no role to play in that much wider discussion/understanding 
Posted 26 days ago by Marie Ping

I think I have understood e.g I transferred the title deed to myself and my two children 50% myself and 25% each to the children. When I die executor filled form DJP to remove my name from the register. So only the children names will be on the register as legal owners. Probate is not necessary only death certificate. Will there be anywhere recorded that they now hold the property as tenants in common. Or the house deed will only show both their names as legal owners there will be no mention of tenants in common. Promise that will be my last question.I will seek legal advice when the time comes. I was trying to get as much infor before doing so. Thank you very much for your patience and understanding. 

Posted 26 days ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - based on what you posted at the start of our conversation you and your late husband held the property as tenants in common (TIC). As such I suspect there is a form A restriction on the register to show that the split/shares/trust created exists.
That restriction will remain on the register until cancelled. So if you transferred the legal ownership to you and two children it would remain. You can also clarify the % shares in the Transfer you complete and opt for TIC - the form A restriction would still remain on the register.
The only time it would be removed is when the property was sold to brand new owners or the shares/trust you have created comes to an end and you then apply to cancel it
Once again this is a complex thing to understand and all your Qs and uncertainties are all valid ones and the types of Q everyone will be asking before making their decisions. 
I would like to think that when you and your late husband drew up your wills and created the trust you di that if you sought legal advice then this might have been explained. Namely what would happen next after one of you sadly died 
But even if that did not happen everyone should be asking themselves the same Qs but those answers will only come from a legal professional who can look at the specifics involved and more for you all. Some I suspect simply apply to update the register in one of the ways discussed and without really researching the options and more
I hope our discussion has at least armed you with enough of an understanding to ask the right Qs and share the right information with your legal adviser so you can then decide what's 'best' and how it will all work going forward 
Posted 24 days ago by Marie Ping
Thank you, it was an interesting discussion and I have learnt a lot. Trying to get some advice and information regarding the queries we discussed. I have researched on Facebook by joining some forums e.g uk probate support, Moneysaving expert forums, Google, trust discussion forum and my local legal adviser. The responses were conflicting e.g was told as tenants in common I cannot use form DJP, it is only for joint tenants. I know now it is incorrect. I was also told I needed probate to update the register. And as tenants in common  I needed probate. It’s very confusing when you get conflicting information from the so called legal profession. That’s why I decided to post my questions to LR for the right advice. And I advise others to do the same with any questions regarding LR. To recap, Adam, thank you being a star with your response to my questions. These are my options and I hope my understandings of them are correct.
Option one fill form DJP to update the register
Option 2 as a sole survivor fill form TRI and add the children names to the title deed. I will ask a solicitor to do this.
Option 3 do nothing and on my death, executor had to fill form ASI to transfer to beneficiaries. Husband death certificate and probate for me. With option 2 will only take that option when adult children has already bought a property as it will affect their first time buyer status if their names are on the title deed as legal owners.  Probate will not be required on my death  if their names are already on the register. Only DJP will be required on my death.
I find it disturbing that most of the legal firms I have contacted told me I needed probate to update the register. Whose advice is correct? That’s why I decided to join the forum. I know I will get the correct advice. The purpose of this discussion is whether probate is always  necessary to update the register. All the legal firms I have contacted told me yes.

 
Posted 24 days ago by Adam Hookway
Morning Marie and thanks for sharing your thoughts as well as where you researched for guidance. As you appreciate sometimes the more you ask Qs there is a risk of getting different answers/advice. That's especially true when those advising have different focus or knowledge/experience. That's the same for HMLR as we are focussed on the legal ownership rather than the wills/trust for example
So looking at your options from a purely HMLR perspective.....
Option one fill form DJP to update the register - correct
Option 2 as a sole survivor fill form TRI and add the children names to the title deed. I will ask a solicitor to do this - correct
Note - I understand your reasoning for doing this and would only add, and something to discuss with your solicitor, that when you and your late husband created the trust the aim was for you to stay in the house and the beneficial ownership value to be shared out to the beneficiaries
Option 3 do nothing and on my death, executor had to fill form ASI to transfer to beneficiaries. Husband death certificate and probate for me. With option 2 will only take that option when adult children has already bought a property as it will affect their first time buyer status if their names are on the title deed as legal owners.  Probate will not be required on my death if their names are already on the register. Only DJP will be required on my death. - correct although your solicitor can again explain the impact of a 'second home' and 'first time buyer status' for you as that's not our remit
Correct on all counts as far as I am concerned and I'm glad the discussion has got you to that point in your understanding re the options available - for anyone else reading this there are always options to consider re the legal ownership/what we register. Hence why we can't tell you what you must or need to do. 
Again I appreciate your finding it disturbing re the advice given by some professions and I suspect that's mainly down to their experience/understanding behind their remit. For example a probate solicitor will focus on probate issues/needs in the same way a solicitor familiar with divorce specialises.
And finally from a purely HMLR perspective probate is always necessary when there is a single, often surviving, registered legal owner. The TIC/form A restriction does not alter that requirement.
When you speak to your solicitor with regards the transfer of legal ownership do come back and share what is advised as appropriate and if you feel it aids the discussion further
Note - I have amended the wording of your Q header slightly to enable others with similar scenarios/options to find it in the forum also. Hope you don't mind
Posted 23 days ago by Marie Ping

I have just spoken with my local legal adviser about what I need to do to update the register. He told me to get grant of probate first. Why is it I am still getting conflicting advice? I did not say anything as it will look am trying to tell him how to do his job? Pl can you confirm again a sole survivor can transfer the house deed to herself and beneficiaries by filling form TRI without probate. Is there a link from LR I could use to point them in the direction direction. To avoid complication later on to probate or not. I think I will apply for the grant later on.It seems the first thing solicitors do ask if probate has been obtained. Thanks

Posted 23 days ago by Adam Hookway
Marie - best thing to refer them to is our Practice Guide 6 - Devolution on the death of a registered proprietor (PG6) - GOV.UK
Section 4 explains in the first paragraph how the personal reps of a deceased joint owner have no power to deal with the legal estate, namely what we register.
It may help to refer them to our online assisted guidance as well which explains what's needed in any given scenario once someone has decided on what they wish to do with the property - HMLR Guide: Start - External  · HM Land Registry
Can I ask what you mean by a 'local legal adviser'? Were they specialist in something?
Posted 9 days ago by Adam Hookway
Land registration is complex, designed to protect legal and financial interests in property. There can be significant consequences for any error. Please consider seeking legal representation.
Find out about making an application without legal representation.

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