HELP _ URGENT ADVICE please as buying property 21 or 28 July 2025

sorry question 4! Question 5 is fees - is that £45 or 0 as no rent/service charge etc. My understanding price paid/value in q5 would be&#160;<span style="font-size:11.0pt;"><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;">nil,is that correct?</span></span>

Marilyn -&#160;<span style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;">ON90083&#160;and ON89439 are both being transferred at present to a new owner after a purchase in Sept 2024 as you state - that's the freehold of 66 and leasehold of 64</span></span><br> <span style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;">ON94510 and ON89688&#160;are the two titles you have bought (freehold of 64 and leasehold of 66) but it’s too soon to check them as the application to register your July purchase has not yet been submitted. It will then be several months before it is processed also. That’s not unusual but the application should be submitted in the next few weeks if you have completed</span></span><br> <span style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;">The registers and lease are still available though to enable any ‘variation’ to take place</span></span><br> <span style="font-size:12pt;"><span style="font-family:Aptos,sans-serif;">It’s not a form FR1 that you need here as the titles are already registered</span></span>

Great, thank you. Can I check then that I can phone and request the registered titles tomorrow and they will be able to deal with this request?<br> <br> Is it then the AP1 I need to send with the deed of variation? Or should it be form AN1? I think not the latter as&#160;the lease would need to be noted on the landlord’s registered title, am I correct in this thinking?<br> <br> I was looking at PG 28, but could not find sup 1 you mentioned previously - any link to this?

Marilyn - who are you going to phone?<br> You can search online for registered information as it currently stands at any time. But you won't get a copy of the pending details or your future application details.&#160;<br> It would be form AP1 to register the variation against both freehold and leasehold titles as appropriate<br> <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/land-registration-practice-guides#guides-20-to-29">Land registration: Practice guides - GOV.UK</a>

Adam - My plan was to phone the Land Registry to get the title ownerships. I have the previous ones prior to purchase but not the new ones showing recent purchase on 21/7/25. - am I correct in thinking until the recent purchase details are updated with the Land Registry (which can take several months), I cannot yet get these title ownerships?<br> <br> Also, am I correct in my understanding that a deed of variation and AP1, etc can still be processed even though the above title ownership details are awaiting processing by hMLR?<br> <br> Looking at PG68, it informs: <h4 id=prescribed>4.4.3 Prescribed clauses</h4> <h5 id=when-required>4.4.3.1 When required</h5> <p>Prescribed clauses are required where:</p> <ul> <li>a lease is granted for a term of more than 7 years from the date of the grant out of a registered title, or in circumstances where the land is unregistered but the landlord is under an obligation to apply for first registration of their title</li> <li>a&#160;<abbr title="refers generically to any deed intended to amend the effect of an original deed, whether to correct a mistake in the original deed or to amend the effect of the original deed otherwise than by way of correction">deed of variation</abbr>&#160;contains an express surrender of the existing lease and a new demise</li> </ul> <h4 id=when-not-required>4.4.3.2 When not required</h4> <p>Prescribed clauses are not required where a&#160;<abbr title="refers generically to any deed intended to amend the effect of an original deed, whether to correct a mistake in the original deed or to amend the effect of the original deed otherwise than by way of correction">deed of variation</abbr>&#160;does not contain an express surrender and grant of a new lease, but extends the term or the extent of the existing lease by varying the clauses of the existing lease. This is nevertheless treated in law as effecting a surrender of the existing lease by operation of the law and the immediate grant of a new lease</p> <br> Am I correct in thinking the prescribed clauses will not be required by the Land Registry as no express surrender and grant of a new lease will be expressed in the deed of variation?<br> <br> Also, good news, I found PG28 sup 1....&#160;

Hi Marilyn - I have responded to your further post in my colleague's absence.&#160;<br> <br> Yes, you cannot get the title ownership evidence until the registration of the recent purchases are completed.&#160;<br> <br> The deed of variation and form AP1 would be processed in priority order.&#160; If there is a prior application affecting the title then they would have wait completion of that application.&#160;

Am I correct in thinking the prescribed clauses will not be required by the Land Registry as no express surrender and grant of a new lease will be expressed in the deed of variation?&#160; Looking at PG68, it informs: <h4 id=prescribed>4.4.3 Prescribed clauses</h4> <h5 id=when-required>4.4.3.1 When required</h5> <p>Prescribed clauses are required where:</p> <ul> <li>a lease is granted for a term of more than 7 years from the date of the grant out of a registered title, or in circumstances where the land is unregistered but the landlord is under an obligation to apply for first registration of their title</li> <li>a&#160;<abbr title="refers generically to any deed intended to amend the effect of an original deed, whether to correct a mistake in the original deed or to amend the effect of the original deed otherwise than by way of correction">deed of variation</abbr>&#160;contains an express surrender of the existing lease and a new demise</li> </ul> <h4 id=when-not-required>4.4.3.2 When not required</h4> <p>Prescribed clauses are not required where a&#160;<abbr title="refers generically to any deed intended to amend the effect of an original deed, whether to correct a mistake in the original deed or to amend the effect of the original deed otherwise than by way of correction">deed of variation</abbr>&#160;does not contain an express surrender and grant of a new lease, but extends the term or the extent of the existing lease by varying the clauses of the existing lease. This is nevertheless treated in law as effecting a surrender of the existing lease by operation of the law and the immediate grant of a new lease</p>

<span style="font-size:11pt;"><span style="line-height:normal;"><span style="font-family:Calibri,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="color:#222222;">Hi Adam</span></span></span></span></span></span><br> <span style="font-size:11pt;"><span style="line-height:normal;"><span style="font-family:Calibri,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><span style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="color:#333333;">64 is&#160;ON94510 - Freehold and&#160;ON89439 - Leasehold</span></span></span></span><br> <span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="color:#333333;"><span style="background:white;">66 is&#160;ON90083 - Freehold and&#160;ON89688 - Leasehold</span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br> <span style="font-size:11pt;"><span style="line-height:normal;"><span style="font-family:Calibri,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="color:#222222;">I am going to be using a conveynancer for the lease extension to only the term, nothing else changing, and am getting quotes at present for the non-statutory route. As you have previously mentioned, t</span></span></span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><span style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="color:#333333;">he freeholder of 64 is also the leaseholder of 66. And the freeholder of 66 is the leaseholder of 64.&#160;</span></span></span><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="color:#222222;">However, different solicitors have indicated different perspectives on whether a lender’s consent is needed to extend the lease on my upstairs flat (66). I do not have a mortgage (it’s a remortgage on a different property), but the downstairs flat (64) does have a mortgage with the Halifax. <strong>As it is criss cross leases (the Land Registry mentioned this), with 64 owning the freehold for my flat, will I need the lender’s consent (Halifax)?</strong> If it helps I can send across the charges registered on my lease for my flat no 66, ON89688, but only have the lease details for the property prior to my purchase (thus it is not my name/mortgage charge with Nationwide, etc which is noted on ON89688). The registration of my lease for 66, where I live, and freehold ownership for 64 (downstairs flat) is still going through registration with HMLR.</span></span></span></span></span></span><br> <br> <span style="font-size:11pt;"><span style="line-height:normal;"><span style="font-family:Calibri,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="color:#222222;">One solicitor has mentioned to expedite the process of registering my lease/freehold with yourselves before they can progress the lease extension. <strong>Can you confirm I will need to do this?</strong>&#160; My understanding from a reply above (on my thread in this forum) was this would not be the case, I could still progress the lease extension as it is all done in order of receipt. <strong>Can you update if I am needing to expedite the title registrations since my recent purchase of no 66 on 21/7/25 before proceeding with the lease extension?</strong></span></span></span></span></span></span><br> Thanks Adam. Flat bought, now lease extension......

Hi Marilyn - congrats on buying your new flat.<br> Yes, you need the consent of the landlord's mortgagee to any lease extension - section 2.1 of&#160;<a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/extension-of-leases">Extension of leases (PG28) - GOV.UK</a>&#160;explains.&#160;<br> From a registration perspective there is no need to expedite your purchase application as the lease extension is being done after the purchase has been completed and the application submitted&#160;

How does the conveyancer/solicitor get up-to-date registration information for the recently purchased titles (lease and freehold) if they are awaiting processing? We are using a different conveyancer from the one we used to purchase the property. Thank you&#160;

I am trying to find out the registered charges to know if the lender's consent (Halifax) on the freehodl title ON90083 (who is my landlord - downstairs flat) will be needed? This makes a difference to the quotes I get from conveyancers. Thanks

Marilyn - conveyancers check the registered information that's available online and then complete an 'official search' to confirm what's pending. They then have a full picture so to speak<br> An official search against&#160;ON90083 would reveal the lender details re the charge involved. But the neighbour's conveyancer would know that already&#160;

Adam - after checking the quotes from conveyancers/solicitors it seems they either use a deed of variation, or a deed of surrender and regrant of a new lease to complete the lease extension process, for us it is predominantly only the term we are interested in extending (both upstairs/downstairs are fairly recent purchases with criss cross leases). From a Land Registry perspective, is there any difference that we should be aware of in choosing a DoV or a deed of surrender/regrant of new lease? Such is one better than the other, or no real big difference?

Marilyn - I have responded to your further post in the absence of my colleague.&#160; We would have no preference on what the deed is called.&#160; Our interest lies in what is agreed in there and if it has been correctly executed.&#160;

<span style="font-size:11pt;"><span style="line-height:115%;"><span style="font-family:Calibri,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><span style="background:white;"><span style="line-height:115%;"><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="color:#333333;">64 is&#160;ON94510 - Freehold and&#160;ON89439 - Leasehold</span></span></span></span></span><br style="box-sizing:border-box;orphans:2;text-align:start;widows:2;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px;"> <span style="font-size:12.0pt;"><span style="line-height:115%;"><span style="font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><span style="color:#333333;"><span style="background:white;"><span style="text-align:start;"><span style=""><span style="orphans:2;"><span style="widows:2;"><span style=""><span style="text-decoration-style:initial;"><span style="text-decoration-color:initial;"><span style="float:none;"><span style="word-spacing:0px;">66 is&#160;ON90083 - Freehold and&#160;ON89688 - Leasehold</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br style="box-sizing:border-box;orphans:2;text-align:start;widows:2;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px;"> <span style="background:white;"><span style="text-align:start;"><span style=""><span style="orphans:2;"><span style="widows:2;"><span style=""><span style="text-decoration-style:initial;"><span style="text-decoration-color:initial;"><span style="float:none;"><span style="word-spacing:0px;">The freeholder of 64 is also the leaseholder of 66. And the freeholder of 66 is the leaseholder of 64.&#160;</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br style="box-sizing:border-box;orphans:2;text-align:start;widows:2;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;word-spacing:0px;"> <span style="background:white;"><span style="text-align:start;"><span style=""><span style="orphans:2;"><span style="widows:2;"><span style=""><span style="text-decoration-style:initial;"><span style="text-decoration-color:initial;"><span style="float:none;"><span style="word-spacing:0px;">Hi - I have just spoken with a solicitor who was very surprised to find that 66 was sold/transferred in Sept 2024, yet was still being registered (indicating normally this takes 4-6 weeks)? He thought there was potentially an issue. Could the Land Registry update me please?&#160;<br> Also 64 was sold/transferred on 21/7/25. Both now want to instruct solicitors to extend their leases. The solicitor stated he needs to access information about these sold/transferred properties to start the voluntary lease extension process. Can you please clarify what is happening? And, what needs to happen next. It’s all very confusing...</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br> &#160;

Hello again Marilyn -&#160;ON89439 &amp; ON90083&#160;is subject to a pending application to update it and where we have been waiting for the conveyancer to respond to a request for more details. It looks like they have done so now so will flag with the casework team to see if that can be completed<br> Nothing pending against the other titles and nothing with regards a July purchase as yet

Thank you. Also chasing up 66 solicitor now...

Marilyn - their reply was insufficient re&#160;ON89439 so the casework team have gone back to them to explain what's still needed

Thanks again Adam for updating me. We have a conveyancer/solicitor we want to instruct for the lease extension but he is saying without this pending he was not able to do anything. He's ALEP registered so seems to have a good grasp on things. Would you have thoughts/suggestions about being able to progress our lease extensions while there are these outstanding matters since purchases of both properties? We have chased the solicitors for 66 (recent purchase on 21/7/25 - and that registration seems it will involve them getting the right info to you first time). I will ask no 64 ON89439 to chase up her solicitor too now - thank you.&#160; But how can we continue to progress the lease extension with all this outstanding? What can we do now? Thanks again.

Marilyn - we can't offer any advice/guidance on what you can do now. Those are only Qs your conveyancer(s) and lender can answer as they will have a process that they have to follow<br> In old money ensuring that all the ducks are in a row or perhaps the more modern saying re the computer needs to say Yes and not No. There's no right or wrong here and simply a case of the conveyancer(s)/lender letting you know when things can proceed.