Unregistered Land

<p>Hi Adam,&#160;</p> <p>Thank you for that.</p> <p></p>

Hi Adam,<br> sorry to be so impatient, we are very much in the dark here, do you know or are you able to see if they have added the illustrative plan yet?&#160;<br> <br> Regards&#160;<br> Sally&#160;

HI Sally - the casework team advise that the plan won't issue via the portal and as such they also posted the letter and plan ion the 6th May so that should arrive with the conveyancer shortly.<br> K526244

<p>Hi Adam,</p> <p>Thank you for that.&#160;</p> <p>I will advise her accordingly</p> <p>regards&#160;</p> <p>Sally</p>

<p>Hi Adam,</p> <p>We have seen the illustrative plan this morning and we are now even more confused. It appears on the face of it we own half Norelands garage (K650326) and half our other neighbours garage Mio Castello (K763238).</p> <p>Our own original title plan (K526244 dated 1/82) shows a gap between us and Norelands garage . Does this mean that&#160;general boundary rules apply on&#160;all of them, including our boundary with The Grange (K519480) because all the boundary discrepancies appear to vary between nothing at all and at its worst, the boundary with Norelands,&#160;showing that we now appear to own (which my in-laws owned originally and actually divided the land when they built Martlets) being roughly 6 metres. If Martlets north boundary&#160;with Norelands was actually not dissecting Norelands garage (as in our title plan) it seems to indicate&#160;that the whole boundary is set too close to Norelands&#160;on the illustrative plan.</p> <p>We just really need some sort of explanation as to how this illustrative plan shows what&#160;it does. We understand&#160;about mapping and nothing being perfect, but how much imperfection&#160;is ok?</p> <p>i hope this makes sense.</p> <p>kind regards&#160;</p> <p>Sally&#160;</p>

Hi Sally - it does make sense and general boundaries are a key part of understanding how titles are registered&#160;<br> We have a series of PGs on plans and more that may assist in understanding the basics -&#160;<a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/land-registration-practice-guides#guides-40-to-49">Land registration: Practice guides - GOV.UK</a>&#160;<br> Remember also that Ordnance Survey detail, such as the buildings on site, is added by OS&#160;<br> Specific issues re the pending application and the illustrative plan are best raised with and explained by the casework team as appropriate&#160;

<p>Hi Adam,&#160;</p> <p>thank you for that.</p> <p>Sally&#160;</p>

<p>Hi Adam,</p> <p>Me again, we are trying as hard as we can to get this sorted, it seems possible that our solicitor/conveyancer’s experience in dealing with sales of rural properties that have come to the market for the first time is little to non existent, she even admitted some time ago in an email to the buyers solicitor&#160;that:-</p> <p>“I can’t remember the last time I made application to LR to determine a boundary line but u see Practice Guide 40 give some information on this. Have you had to do this recently?”</p> <p>I have attached the written report&#160;received from the case worker Donna Harrison and also the illustrative plan that could not be uploaded to the portal. Hopefully you can see them. Please ignore the solicitors comments. We are&#160;fully aware that your experience in Land Registry and all its nuances is vast so you will understand what is in the plan. Our boundaries as shown on it are what’s the OS surveyor did when he attended, so as you can see our actual registered plot varies considerably from what is on the ground.</p> <p>The sticking point is the paragraph in&#160;the report that refers to the title plan (K519480 The Grange).</p> <p>Although Donna Harrison does not say it is owned by the Grange she does write “It does appear that&#160;when we created a new edition of the adjoining title plan (K519480)&#160;this&#160;new edition did not fully reflect the extent of&#160;land in that&#160;title as this includes part of the access way referred to in the statement of truth and this then caused us to create&#160;the impression that the some land in this area&#160;was unregistered when in fact it was registered.”</p> <p>We are trying to get both solicitors&#160;to understand the concept of General Boundary rules and that just because the title plan shows one thing it is not an exact reproduction of what is physically on the ground. My husband and I were both trained as plan drawers in our previous profession and we understand It’s a hand&#160;drawn document filed&#160;in 1982&#160;probably drawn up by a conveyancer or solicitor. You will be able to see that the blue line next to&#160;the north north west&#160;&#160;boundary of the Grange is actually shown within our physical surveyed&#160;boundary. We have a scaled ruler and have measured the depth of the area, it appears to be approximately 1.5m at the north north east&#160;end and 3.4m at the north west end where the boundary ends at the road. We cannot ring and speak directly to Donna Harrison, the buyers solicitor cannot get any answers from land registry as our solicitor is the person who submitted the application.</p> <p>Is it possible that Donna Harrison can send out a further communication to our solicitor&#160;by email to explain&#160;this? We can understand that solicitors are all worried for their profession but surely common sense has to prevail or else your written&#160;articles&#160;and you tube videos about “general boundary rules” become meaningless?</p> <p>If we are to take&#160;title plans literally none of the properties shown on the illustrative plan adjoining us and further will be able to be sold as we all appear to own part of our neighbours grounds.&#160;</p> <p>Please can you help?</p> <p>kind regards&#160;</p> <p>Sally&#160;</p> <p></p>

Sally - I will share your comment with the casework team and ask them to consider as appropriate. I'll share their response either here or through direct email as appropriate.<br> K526244

<p>Hi Adam,</p> <p>&#160;I can only hope somebody’s sees sense. Thank you once again.</p> <p>Sally&#160;</p>

Sally - I have emailed you a response as provided by the senior officer dealing with your conveyancer's application.<br> I would recommend that you speak to your legal rep and to share it's contents as appropriate.<br> I don't think there's nothing I can usefully add via this forum bearing in mind the stage you are at with your conveyancer and the registered extents<br> K526244

<p>Many thanks Adam I have already received that email&#160;</p>

<p>Hi Adam, (K526244 Martlets)</p> <p>Well it’s been a while and that very complex case you alluded some time ago to, is finally on the road to being sorted. Our solicitor submitted an adverse possession request on Tuesday 10th June regarding land that somehow now falls within the Granges title (K519480). The chain is stilling holding at the moment but our buyers buyer is now threatening to pull out (they have already lost one previous buyer) if he doesn’t get anything positive soon.</p> <p>Would you be able to tell me&#160;if or when the letter regarding the adverse possession will be sent to the title owner of The Grange, everyone, including the owner of The Grange&#160;is trying to get this sorted.</p> <p>Kind regards&#160;</p> <p>sally&#160;</p> <p></p>

Hi Sally - glad things are still intact. Their response/additional paperwork needs to be reviewed by the casework team/lawyer dealing with the matter so I am unable to advise as to when any letter might be issued to the affected parties as appropriate.<br> You will need to let the process play out&nbsp;<br> K526244 &amp;&nbsp;K519480

<p>Hi Adam,</p> <p>Thank you for the super quick reply. I guess we’re hoping that because lots of stuff has&#160;already been discussed between our solicitors and land registry that it won’t be too long before it’s actioned.</p> <p>kins regards</p> <p>sally&#160;</p>

<p>Hi Adam,</p> <p>we applied for amendment to title plan originally and as a result of that an Ordnance Survey surveyor attended and plotted all&#160;our boundaries at the request of Land Registry before Easter.</p> <p>I believe&#160;this application for Adverse possession is&#160;being&#160;dealt with by the Senior Officer&#160;Mr Ian P Jones, he is the same gentleman that has been in this from the beginning.</p> <p>Having read other posts on here about adverse possession, some mention a surveyor attending, will they need to send Ordnance Survey again or will that first visit be enough?</p> <p>Would you please be able to explain the order of how an adverse possession moves forward? As I&#160;said yesterday, we have already spoken to the owner of the land in question, he is as confused as us about how all this has happened, he is more than happy to do whatever Land registry ask of him and as quickly as possible, so I assume that also removes the 65 working days it can take when contacting the land owner? What else happens in this whole procedure?</p> <p>Thank you&#160;</p> <p>Sally&#160;</p>

Hi Sally - that will be up to the casework team/senior officer to decide. If the OS visit was recent then I suspect not but all depends what their report revealed of course<br> A survey and/or wider checks with affected landowners are the two key stages re such applications. Both you and the owner will need to be patient and wait for any contacts to be made. Responses can then be provided as appropriate.<br> 65 days is the standard period allowed for an owner of registered land to respond<br> If anyone is confused then they must rely on their legal reps to guide them and explain not only what's happening but why. This is especially true in a sale/purchase scenario as it is for the respective conveyancers to manage their client's expectations re the whole conveyancing process. That includes any pending applications for registration&nbsp;<br> K526244 &amp;&nbsp;K519480

<p>Hi Adam,</p> <p>The confusion is only around the piece of land in question, the owner of the Granges comment when we spoke to him, was “I’ve never owned that land, that’s your garden and driveway” Fortunately we all get on and there is no angst about any of it.</p> <p>He is also keen to get it all sorted asap as he’s aiming to put his on the market when it’s ready.</p> <p>Thank you again for the update, it’s got to&#160;be sorted however long it takes and we totally understand that.</p> <p>Sally&#160;</p> <p></p>

<p>Morning Adam,</p> <p>sorry to bother you, I&#160;wondered if you would be able to help? We were informed by our solicitor&#160;on Wednesday last week that Land Registry need another survey done by OS to check the land involved in the adverse possession.</p> <p>The solicitor was informed that both neighbours and us had been written to and I assume this is with a view to booking the surveyors visit. She included a link for us which we returned to Ordnance Survey immediately, but to date neither neighbour has received any correspondence. I remember&#160;the last time, the letter was sent first class and arrived 2 days after it was sent. Is there anyway you are able to find out what date these letters were posted please, also are they able to use the same link that they used for the previous survey.(<a href="http://www.os.uk/surveyorvisit">http://www.os.uk/surveyorvisit</a>) (K526244 &amp; K519480 &amp; K650326)</p> <p>&#160;They are all trying to help us and move it forward as quickly as possible.</p> <p>kind&#160;regards</p> <p>Sally &#160;</p> <p></p> <p></p> <p></p>

Afternoon Sally - letters were issues 1st class on 18th June re the survey needed and included the same link you refer to&#160;<br> K526244 &amp; K519480 &amp; K650326